The Waiting Game…
Sunday, January 24th, 2010 by Ken
Hi Folks,
Very sorry for the long period of silence. We had several recent stretches of 36 hour working sessions getting over the final hump of MT4 programming. Exhaustion set in by the end of it. We needed a few days off to decompress and recharge. Here is a progress report…
The Good: There are now many, many different pairs with optimizations underway. Cyclops GS and Phoenix GS Suites will soon be among us. The Xeons and i7s are doing everything they can, as quick as they can, to deliver the goods. Every step to bring them to the table as quick as possible, without cutting any corners, has been taken. They all look great, and we could not be any happier with the work we’ve done. We think you will agree.
The Bad: Unfortunately, the progress bars at this point still report anywhere between 215 and 390 hours remaining, depending on the pair and EA. So if you’re looking for a countdown…work it off the time of this message and those figures. It seems a long time, but please take comfort in this…
Along the way, we have discovered many, many things that will cause EAs to fail, or be completely inaccurate from broker to broker. The steps we had to take to solve these problems took hundreds of additional hours, but without them, this whole thing would have been meaningless. We have never seen the solutions we have come up with implemented anywhere else before. In fact, we’ve never even seen them attempted. We can’t really blame other people for not trying to solve these problems, because it was incredibly daunting, and at times, seemed impossible. We certainly haven’t used every system out there, so there could indeed be some that have tried to address these problems, but the average $197 Tuesday special…forget it!
There are a few beta/demo accounts on the go. A little explanation on those is probably in order. They were never setup to be trading full on. They have incredibly conservative settings on them. If they took a trade, great. If not, great! They primarily existed to test the market scanning element of Cyclops…across different brokers. Does it work? YES! Better than we ever imagined. This was what created the additional 100’s of hours of coding. Was it worth it? If it took 5 times as long, it still would have been worth it. It was a bit of a heart breaker having to do it when the end seemed so close, but again, it simply HAD to be done.
So…where does that leave us? Well, the final countdown truly is on (see above). Our batteries are physically recharged. We will now put our focus back on finishing up the site. Starting Wednesday, new pages should be appearing quite frequently. We will do brief updates on the progression of all the progress bars. Once they complete, the beta/demo account holders will be able to take their pick on which EA/pair they would like to run. As soon as that happens…everybody’s reception will get a little clearer on the Performance pages.
All the best,
Ken and James
ps- We thank you all for your patience, but trust us…NOBODY wants this done any quicker than us! However, we’re just not prepared to put out something half-baked. If you can wait no longer, and that is understandable, I’m sure that this Tuesday will see at least one release for you to get your hands on.
43 Comments to “The Waiting Game…”
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- The Waiting Game… (43)
- Warren: Is Cyclops one of the four pairs in the Phoenix Suite? If we buy Phoenix, would it be redundent to also by...
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The wait is much longer than expected, and no one hates it more than us. I appreciates everyone who have shown support and joined us in this journey. We are growing $trees here… takes time to mature before they bear fruits :)
Thanks guys for the update!
Ken and James,
The main reason I am so interested in this endeavor is because I am convinced from having dealt with James as a member of FXHarvest and seeing his work and reading Ken’s posts on DonnaForex’s forum and what I have since seen here that you are both very talented and well-intentioned individuals and I’m confident that the combination of your talents will bring us something quite a few steps above the routine EA release.
I’m excited about the prospects of what you have in store, which has made it much more difficult to keep visiting with hopes of learning new things and none are to be found. I haven’t lost any enthusiasm for the system, as James has said I should call it as opposed to a simple EA, and I am extremely happy for this explanation of what you are currently doing and that things still seem to be going well, even though you’ve hit some rough spots that needed some ironing out.
Thank you both for all your hard work on this and I hope in the near future you will be richly rewarded for you efforts.
Mighty kind words, Steve…thank you!
This week will see a lot of the holes filled in around here. It may take until toward the end of the week, but, your days of visiting in hopes of finding new info are truly numbered. :-)
All the best…Ken
I’m sure Cyclops will be worth the wait. It is better to wait and be sure about the behavior and performance of the robot then have some unpleasant surprises after the robot has been released. We have all been there…
Thanks for all the efforts you made so far!
Oh too many times, Popko.
Thanks for hanging in there, mate.
Ken
I used to be a programmer in a former life. You guys have my understanding and sympathy! Thanks for the integrity you put into this product. And the blood, sweat and tears. Hopefully just figuratively…
I am rooting for you guys!
Leif
Hi Leif!
Blood…figuratively.
Sweat and tears…literally! :-)
Certainly an emotional journey. At times, I think we would have been better off starting somewhere other than MT4, then porting there. But, on the upside of that, nothing…and I mean nothing…will ever compare again to what we have gone through to get to this point. We now have a rock solid foundation laid for any other systems that follow and porting to different platforms will now be a breeze in comparison.
Based on your former life, your understanding and sympathy means a lot.
Many thanks, Leif…Ken
Hi Ken and James,
great to hear that! To me it’s no problem to wait, it’s kind of a self experience lesson, so to say :-) You are very serious about what you are doing here and as you said earlier, communication was not the primary focus. I think you don’t want to post misleading backtest results, so this is fine to me also to wait a little bit longer. There is no alternative anyway. I have tried so many worthless systems out there, all those click and buy stuff, so this is something really new and has great potential, no doubt. Of course it’s hard not to know what is really going on behind the curtains, but I have no doubt, that this will change and we will have the oportunity to test and discuss as much as we want later on. I am glad if my little testing live account is of any use in this process!
So, please keep on and don’t feel harmed if some become a little unpatient, this is all human.
All the best,
Peter
Hi Peter,
It has been a tough balancing act for us at times. As you know, it is only myself and James handling everything. There just simply isn’t time for us to program, troubleshoot, web design etc. and communicate everything at the same time. We have had to ask ourselves what we think the priorities are. What would people most like to see us doing? Everything, obviously…but just not possible. :-)
We chose to put the primary focus on the systems. It took us a little longer to get over some hurdles than we thought. We also found hurdles we didn’t even know existed, and they grew into mountains as we uncovered more. Both of us are now 100% satisfied with the systems. For me to even utter those words still surprises me.
The things we uncovered as we went really affected this whole thing. There is no way we would have put any of the site live if we knew we were going to be delayed like we were. There is teasing…and then there is annoying. I believe this has gone on long enough to qualify as annoying! It was never our intention to drag it out like this. So, again, we had decisions to make…
Do we ignore the things we’ve uncovered and release as is…these things perform pretty well without taking all these extra steps? Not a chance! What would separate Gain Systemics from anyone else then? I’m sure other people have unearthed some of the things we found before, but just said…forget it…that is either unfixable, or, will take far too long to try. We took our stand, and fixed it. But something else had to give. The web site and the important details you all hunger for…it just had to get pushed. And communication…
Do we get 10 out of 10 for communication over the last couple of weeks? I would say not! I do, however, hope that our communication has always come across as honest and up front, though. I love clear communication and was not at all happy about not being able to interact, but programming and testing really does not mix well with ANYTHING else. All my plants wanted was a drink of water and they couldn’t even get that! :-)
The good news is…if James and I are both silent like that…BIG things are happening! However, I honestly don’t foresee a time again when we will both have our heads down, simultaneously, as we did for that period of time, so that sort of silence should never happen again.
So now, as the goose is cooking, we get back on track with everything else. All the information we had been putting together is now being updated to reflect the recent updates to the systems. New doors will be opening around here very soon.
Backtests… there will soon be extensive tests posted for every Cyclops GS pair and Phoenix GS Suite. There will be three different types for each, consistently run, for easy comparison. Each will include an easy to view Equity Curve and Summary Report. There will also be a link for each to download a Detailed Report…every trade. So…at a guess…I would say that in approximately 250 hours you will begin to see those appear. Soon after that, they will all be up. There should be around 80 of them total. You want backtests? Backtest you shall receive! :-)
As for discussing things later on… Steps are being taken, as we speak, to make communication a little easier and more structured around here. It will make it a little easier for everyone to talk about things as we reveal all of the new information.
Thank you again for helping us in the beta stage [and helping us find 100's of more hours work to do! :-) ]. The clock is ticking and you will soon have your pick of which System and pair you would like to set in motion. All the best…Ken
ps- Some of that was just general information, Peter, and not specifically targeted at you. Thanks mate.
Hi Ken, this was more of a new update from you side and I am very thankful for that, as are our fellow traders here, I am sure! Every question I could ever have is now answered. Your aproach here is unique and your way to comunicate is very encouraging to me. Every word you ever wrote here tells only one story in my perception: You are honest people, technically highly skilled and you take this job with enormous serousity and bring in an unbeleivable amount of work. You cannot buy this (from a customer perspective) anywhere for money. So it is totally unaceptable to blame you for lack of comunication, delay in launch or anything. Your posts, and especially your last one, shows in any possible clearness, that you are a brilliant comunicator and put your best efforts in this, for us customers in spe. This is so outstanding, that I would wait years to see in the end, what you are bringing out in the end! Really not a problem. Most EA providers out there, make use of peoples greed and impatience to sell there products. You are not of this kind and I thank you for this. Most people here realise, there is something real coming up soon. I have never seen something like this before in this market, so you have all my sympathy and support for this, take me up on this! I am proud to be part of this great project, a little passive though:-) But this will change.
Thank you mate for all this, and excuse my bad style, you know, I am swiss and we speak a little strange:-)
Peter
Is there any indication as to cost??
Hi Richo,
Yes, that has all been decided. Please bear with us for a few days and give us a chance to present it as we have always planned. Everything is coming together nicely and it will all be lit up soon.
Many thanks…Ken
Hi Ken & James,
Thanks for the update and all of your hard work on this project. Did I read this right you are expecting to release at least one on Tuesday?
God bless you both,
Dan
Hi Dan!
Many thanks, my friend. Umm…Tuesday is a little optimistic. A week Tuesday will be pretty close. All kinds of interesting things will be showing up this week, though. That should help reduce the pain of the wait, I think.
Thanks again…Ken
“Patience and perserverence have a magical effect before which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish.” – John Quincy Adams
Thanks guys, still waiting patiently here! I trust in what you are doing and know you have our best trading interests at heart!
LMStuff
Hi LM,
Nice quote. Very fitting!
Appreciate the support. Nearly there now.
All the best…Ken
No worries James and Ken!
I share alot of the same feeling as other commenters. I get so weary of seeing the ‘latest greatest, going to change forex trading forever’ crap show up in my mail box from all the other forex ‘experts’ that waiting for something genuine is not a problem.
I know myself and all my clients are anxiously awaiting the arrival of your EA and while we can’t be there in the flesh, we are there in spirit!
Thanks for all you’re doing!
Greg
Thanks for the spirit, Greg!
We feel it. We’ll be in touch soon.
Cheers…Ken
Hi James and Ken,
I’ve been monitoring your updates over the last few months and am greatly impressed with your obvious commitment to getting it right from the start.
As an engineer with past programming as well as flight test experience (am in the aerospace business), I know well the importance of extreme analytical rigour in the development and test phases of any project. The fact that you guys have not succumbed to any perceived cost/schedule pressures, in the face of continuing challenges that you’ve shared in your recent updates indicates that we can expect a truly high performing and quality system when finally released. Like many others, I too have been ‘burnt’ by the hyped-up promises of many in this ‘business’ – great to see that you are taking a very different approach !
I have some obvious questions regards spread sensitivity, broker consistency etc (particularly if looking for small TPs [from a donnaforex blog]) … but am happy to wait for your final release when I’m sure most will be answered. Keep up the great work! Looking forward to some hot results (like our current summer) and participating in your release.
BTW, I have some VPS space and am happy to assist in demo testing (with regular published live updates) if needed.
Hi Noel,
Thanks for stopping by and for the very kind words. Yes indeed…we’ve faced a bit of an uphill battle here at times. But, this thing is either right, or this thing is nothing! :-)
As far as the donnaforex blog, is this the statement to which you refer..?
.
“However, the average profit per trade of only 5 pips if of considerable concern. There is not much room for error, and with such a low average profit per trade and high number of trades, my guess is that the robot runs on 5 minute bars. My experience with that situation, is that consistency of results between brokers/real vs. demo/data feed is a real problem. Hope I’m wrong. It will be interesting to see how this robot works in forward testing.”
.
I’ve only quickly scanned through it. When I have some time to properly engage in that thread, I will do so. But, touching on the above and your questions. First of all…
The gentleman’s guess that the Systems trade 5 minute bars is inaccurate. They actually trade 30 minute bars. There are also a lot of other time frames taken into consideration along the way, too…as as far up as the daily. We are not dealing with scalpers here.
That average of 5 pips per trade includes Trailing Stops, Break Evens and a few other gems we’ll reveal soon. But, rest assured, Cyclops and Phoenix GS will never set out in a trade looking for 5 pips. Sure, they may close out with 5 pips, from time to time, but that is not their ultimate target. A target that low would be pretty much impossible to have work consistently across brokers and varying spreads.
Our systems are designed to be pretty low stress…they are designed to protect capital. Could we increase that average pips/trade? Of course we can…and have, actually (we should probably wait for new backtests to re-evaluate), but… The higher the average pips/trade figure goes, almost certainly the Drawdown and stress must follow.
The systems are flexible and people will be able to choose the risk they are prepared to take. I suppose we are just trying to come up with recommended values so everyone can sleep at night.
Thanks again for the kind words, my friend. Anytime someone with experience such as yours recognizes what we’re up to here…it really means a lot! We’ll continue this conversation as new info and test results are posted…the systems have been updated quite a bit since December 5th…and for the good!
All the best…Ken
Hi Ken,
You correctly identified the donnaforex blog that I was referring to (above)… many thanks for your informative response. Particularly relieving to see that this is not another scalper system with all the attendant broker sensitivity and consistency issues! Your wide trading ranges from M30 to D1 should also add to robustness in varying market conditions.
Also great to see that your systems are ‘designed to be pretty low stress …(and) designed to protect capital’. Hence, safety first … performance second (can always be wound up later). Reminds me of the old aviators adage of priorities when in an emergency: ie aviate, navigate, communicate (in that order). Can be broadly translated to safety (first), performance (second), and communication (your task right now, third – and rightly so as you complete your development and test phase). As your say, ‘this thing is either right, or this thing is nothing!’
Regards the donnaforex blog and your intent …‘when I have some time to properly engage in that thread’, I am a little disappointed with the impatience shown by some. They need to remember that ‘a good wine matures in its own time’. In the meantime, I am sure that the patient and wise will be silently watching your updates in this ‘blog’. Keep up the great work!
To Peter (swiss) – your comments said so eloquently, my sentiments also (and I trust those of many others watching silently).
I am very highly anticipating the release of your EAs, and I am astounded by your level of commitment and dedication to quality. I also have VPS space available for demo/live testing (JadeFX VPS) with published stats if you are in need of extra testing capacity. Keep up the great work!
Wow Dusty…
Very kind words there, mate. Really appreciate that. Thank you for the support. Stay tuned for all the news coming soon.
All the best…Ken
Hi Ken and James,
Thanks for all the time and effort that you are putting into this project.If you need any help with beta testing , just let me know.
Thanks again
Hi Ken and James.
You guys are completely different to what I have seen so far in the forex world.
I am sure that you will set a precedent in the industry which has recently been flooded by dishonest and selfish vendors.
Regards Arthur
wednesday is passed… Even tuesday… And there is no update… I’m very anxious… I sent you an email with no answer… I really trust that this year will be the year of our success in forex… :) can you answer my mail?
Amazing commitment to this project guys. My hat goes off to you. I’m also waiting with baited breath for updates.
If I can help with any testing just let me know.
Chris
Patience my friends, I would much rather have the guys working on the project than answering emails no matter how anxious we all are. As a wise one once said “Things of quality have no fear of time!”
Hi Ken and James,
I also have free space in my VPS for forward testing, just count on me too if in need.
Thanks for your efforts,
Miguel
I will just be glad when I can get a hold of the EA whenever it is released.
I am sick to death of all the crap ones that are flooding the markets and my email account.
Get Cyclops and forget the rest. Will filter my email account so that any new
emails with the words “forex and Expert Advisor” in it will go straight to the junk folder. Where they belong.
I see comments reflecting a hard time to be patient, and I sure struggle too. I would like to share this old tune trying to inspire calmness for fellow waiters – and loyalty and support for your hard work guys! Do rush it – we’ll be right here waiting for you… ;-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8i4fK4Fc7Ms
//Tobias
haha – DON’T rush it i mean! we need quality in front of delivery date, my mistake :-)
Cheers, Tobias
Well, January 2010 has come and gone.
No EA released, no backtest / forward test results shown. No updates from developers as we move into February 2010.
I’d be lying through my teeth if I said I wasn’t disappointed
Well, Dan…
Nobody likes a liar. Thanks for your honesty, mate.
can you tell us more info?
Announcement coming soon…
In case your teeth hurt, Dan…
Looks like some gems in the making over here. Please stop back in sometime and let us know how they work out. Looks a little like the same old shtick, but who knows…maybe they’ll be great.
Best of luck…Ken
Hi guys,
Just want to say thanks for setting a high standard and actually bothering to attempt to do it right.
Need help with the beta testing, let me know.
ATB
Rob
Many thanks, Rob!
Kind of needs to be done. Thanks for the offer…we could be in touch.
Cheers…Ken
Looking forward to your announcement. If you need help with beta test, I have space on my VPS as well. Let me know
i think that everyone has space for testing… and everyone want to test :) but i think that we will test only when they will put the bot on market :) ahahahah
Is Cyclops one of the four pairs in the Phoenix Suite?
If we buy Phoenix, would it be redundent to also by Cyclops?
Would we get the best results from running Cyclops and Phoenix together on five pairs at once, or would it hinder our results?
Thank you.